Trisha Carter & Jane Barron on Education for Children Moving Around the World
This week Trisha sits down with Jan Barron to discuss the Australian education system and education for children moving around the world.
Time Stamps
Welcome and Acknowledgment of Country 0:08
Introduction of Jane Barron 1:04
Introduction to today's topic 2:47
What do children, newly arrived in Australia need to adapt to in the educational system? 3:43
Differences between the Australian education system and other education systems 5:42
Naplan Standardised testing in Australia contrasted to other systems 7:21
Teacher Student relationship in Australia 11:44
The partnership between home and school in Australia 13:32
Advocating for and supporting your child and their happiness at school 19:58
What's happening in the brain of a child at a new school 21:17
As children get older how do we adapt the ways we support children in transition 29:38
Belonging to our new school community is key 34:02
How does the Australian education system impact the way young people show up in the workplace 36:05
Thanks and conclusion 42:41
full transcript
Trisha
Hey, it's great to be here today talking with my friend and colleague, Jane Barron. Jane, welcome. We're really looking forward to chatting about education system in Australia and education for children who are moving around the world.
Jane
Thank you so much for having me today, Trisha. I'm so looking forward to this conversation.
Trisha
Me too. So we'll begin by acknowledging the traditional owners of the land that we both live and work on. So I'm here on the land, the Gweagal people.
Jane
And and I'm here on the land of the Gadigal people.
Trisha
And we would like to both pay our respects to the elders of those people and and indeed all Indigenous Elders in Australia and honor their, their elders past, present and emerging. And as always, with the hope that the work that we do will build some understanding, further understanding of differences between peoples. So let me just take a moment to introduce Jane, who is my friend, but is also my colleague.
She's an educational consultant and we have worked together with a number of different clients. She specializes in students student cross-cultural transitions, and she can do that so well because she has a master's in education and her professional life has included being an educator herself, a researcher and a writer an expat and a cross-cultural kid mum and has 30 years of teaching and consulting in international and local schools.
Jane has founded her own business, which is globally grounded, and that's where she's worked with me most often consulting to schools, family and students, crossing cultures and developing their understanding of the impact of mobility on their education. She's also a founder of the organization called Safe Passage Across Networks known as SPAN, which is an organization that is committed to healthy cross-cultural transitions in and through international education.
And she's currently serving as the director of training and Consulting. She's also Jane is also a researcher and is researcher most recent research paper is ‘Surveying the Landscape, common practices, challenges and opportunities in international school transitions’. So she's busy, but she's knowledgeable. She has an evidence based understanding that is grounded in practice. So we're going to have a really good discussion here today.
Thank you, Jane.
Jane
Thank you so much, Trisha.
Trisha
I started this because I am aware of so many of the people that I've been working with in the past six months and some of those people I've dealt with some big groups, big groups of people have come in from Japan, from China, Hong Kong, and thinking about people also that are moving to other places the US, the UK, people moving out to Asian parts, the thinking about these people and the issues that their children might be facing and the issues that they are facing as they try and parent and support those children.
So it's the start of the school year. We're probably three weeks in at the most. Kids are settling in, We would hope all around Australia people have been going back to school. Yeah, we know that isn't happening in the northern hemisphere. You never really stopped like we did. But hey, we had summer, so we have finished summer now and we're back to school.
So with these new or relatively new arrivals to Australia, what things from your experience do children need to adapt to when they come to Australia?
Jane
Yeah, great question Trisha. Thank you. It's really interesting, you know, having worked with students across so many different contexts and cultures coming to schools in Australia, tthe things that parents may well have expected of things such as that the unfamiliar academic environment, English language challenges and and fatigue. You know, it's exhausting moving between cultures and starting at a new school.
Everything's so new your, your, your bombarded visually auditory your brain is just working so hard to understand everything that it's receiving. And there's a lot going on in your brain apart from just receiving that information, we’ll come back to that later. But some of the things that you might parents might not have expected are things such as the relationship between teachers and students and how that works and how how students, how peers relate with one another.
And also a reluctance possibly to or not knowing how to seek help because we have so many different cultural perceptions when it comes to education and understanding the role of teachers within within our community. So I would say they are the key factors there.
Trisha
Yeah, they sound they sound quite weighty. Let's focus on the ones that might be unexpected. So I think there's the academic environment, the teacher, teacher, student relationship and then the peer to peer ones as well I think of. But any other aspects that you think might be really helpful then? Yeah.
Jane
Yeah, sure. Absolutely. So when it comes to understand ending some of the nuances and the differences between the Australian system and other systems, you mentioned before about how a lot of your work is with people who are coming to us from China, Japan, Hong Kong, so on. And so these are very similar in that we all value school education greatly.
It's a big part of our culture and a it’s big part of our economic and political agendas. So that's great we’re all on the same page there. Students begin in elementary or what we in Australia call primary school around age five and six, and they complete six years there before moving on to secondary school in in China and Hong Kong, Japan, Australia, we all do that. So that's great. There's some similarities there. In Japan and Chin they both offer middle schooling or junior high schooling for three years. In Australia this is possible, but not all schools actually offer this. It's actually more common for students to move from primary school to secondary school or high school to six years. Although students can choose to leave after five years and they give them permission to do that if they have a confirmed job or vocational study that they can, they can go to. So that's just a little bit of information around the structure of the school. So just understanding that really helps to kind of get your brain into gear when you've come from other educational systems.
So so some of the other things that are really important, I think to understand it with regard to the Australian education system is around standardized testing in in Japan and China High School entrance exams really are incredibly important. There's a lot of weight placed on them and they determine which high school your child will attend. And then of course, that links on to university or tertiary opportunities. In Australia, we kind of have two systems. We have a comprehensive system and we have a selective system. So the majority of schools are what we call comprehensive schools and they do not require a child to sit in an entrance exam. They welcome any child into their school. Selective schools however -
Trisha
However, any child in the in the location that the school is set.
Jane
Yes, that's correct. In the public system. Yes, that's right. And I'll briefly talk about the difference between private and public in just one moment. Yes, that's right. Selective schools, however, do require students to sit an entrance exam exam, and they do that before they go to high school so that when they start high school, their school's determined. So they would sit that entrance exam in grade six in preparation for use of an entry.
So you mentioned before a teacher about being in the right area that surrounded the school. That is absolutely correct for the government system here in Australia and particularly on the eastern seaboard of Queensland, New South Wales, Victoria. So if you live within a certain distance from a government school, then you automatically have the right to go to that school.
And so that's excellent. If you live outside what they call that catchment area, it can be, and you want to go to a particular school, you want your children to go to a particular government school. That can be tricky. So so that's one thing to keep in mind. We also have another system which is called the private school system, and this is a fee paying school.
So often, quite often they are run by faith institutions, not always, but often they are run by faith institutions and they you pay a fee to attend those types of schools. Some of those private schools require students to sit an entrance exam, but not all. So you would need to access their website to find that out.
Now, the reason why I'm actually focusing on standardized testing is because in Australia we do have a test called NAPLAN. You'll hear about it. If you have students who are children, who are in grades three, five, seven or nine, they'll be sitting those net plan tests in May this year. But hear from me - don't stress. The purpose of our NAPLAN standardized testing is that it helps governments and education authorities and schools to see whether our young Australians are reaching important literacy and numeracy goals and whether our education system is working the way that we think it should be. Or think it is. It is not. It does not determine what class your child will get into next year, what high school they'll get into or anything like that. It's not for that purpose at all. It's purely for schools and authorities to see and make sure our education system is working the way that that we want it to.
Trisha
So it should be less stressful in that sense.
Jane
Yes, it absolutely should be less stressful. Yes, absolutely. Yes. And so and I would encourage parents to really explain that to their children, because if you're new this year and you're sitting at a test that everyone else is sitting and you're still getting your head around how this education system works, that can be very, very, very stressful. But it doesn't it's not that important in the scheme of things.
Trisha
Sure. And so another another of the factors you mentioned there was the teacher student relationship. So how might that be similar or different?
Jane
Yes, great question. Yeah, that's such an important element of within our Australian school system because the student teacher relationship is a very important element in our system. So here in Australia our teachers are not seen as the font of all knowledge. So for example, in a system that is based on the Confucius discourse. So a good example would be the Chinese educational system, mainland China, educational system teaches they’re very much so regarded as the font of all knowledge, and it's their job to pass that knowledge down. And that and that truth is delivered from one generation to the next, thanks to teachers and what they teach.
Whereas in our Australian in education system, which is a little similar to Japan, teachers are very much so regarded as partners in the teaching process. They are respected as facilitators and co learners in that learning environment and they are leading students to the truth through reasoning rather than just being just providing them with information. So it's very much a whole learning kind of environment and that is a big difference if you come from an environment where it's being very formal and teachers, they often regarded as superior even to parents.
So that's one of the big differences, which we will talk about in a minute Trisha, is around that partnership between home and school is very much so valued here in Australia.
Trisha
So shall we move on to that now then?
Jane
Sure, absolutely. Yes.
Trisha
I did want to think about that. You know how the school itself operates. So not just for the child going into the school, but how the school itself operates and how it might be similar or different for people from other parts to the world. And what are the expectations that people because we always make assumptions and we make assumptions that it'll be exactly like it was where we used to be, and then it can be surprising when it's not.
So what might be some of those surprises for people?
Jane
Yes. Yeah. Good. That's that's great thinking. Well, I think the parental involvement is definitely one of those elements. So let's address that first. And then the other area is around what a successful learner looks like here in the Australian education system I think is valuable so that parents can understand what the goals are for for Australia and Australian education.
So but let's just cover off the parental involvement first. So I mentioned before about the role, the importance of the relationship between home and school. So the first thing to know is that the entire Australian education system is built on the principle that parents, carers and families are the first and most important influence in a child's life. They are the ones that instill the attitudes and the values that will support young people to participate in schooling and then also contribute to the broader local and global economies. So so that's really important to understand.
Then, so if we step back from that, let's have a look at what the formula for success is. As a parent in Australia and an Australian education system. So involved from home class involvement at school and involvement in the school community equals improved wellbeing learning and results for your child. And it also equals an effective school providing high quality education.
So what do I mean by that? By that I mean that if parents can be support their child's learning at home, be involved in the school and be involved in the school community, then it actually translates to improved wellbeing, improved learning and improved results for your child. So so it's a it's a cyclical thing because then it makes it more effective school and providing high quality education.
So it's it's a real cycle, but there are barriers to that.
Trisha
I guess I was going to say, what does that actually mean and what does it look like a parent involvement in the school?
Jane
Yeah. Okay. So that means turning up. So at the start of the year, probably round about now, actually, you'll be invited to an evening or an afternoon at the school where the teacher will explain what's what, how she runs her classroom or how they, if your child is in secondary school, how they go about their timetable and the values of the school and all of that kind of thing. And I would encourage you to go to those meetings, start there, because that's where you'll get a real feel for the school. And it's an opportunity to meet parents for the very first time. So that's so that's a great place to start.
On weekends and after school, many schools offer a sporting opportunities here in Australia, sport is a big thing. Music is also, musical education is as well, but sport is a big thing. So if you can get involved or your children are involved in some of the sporting activities or the music activities, it's a great way to meet parents and become involved in the school community.
There's also things like parents, there's a parent association and that's a great way to find out what's happening in the school and also contribute to positive change within your school community.
So they're all always you can do that. And then of course, there's you being an advocate for your child one on one. And we're going to talk about that, I think, in a moment or two. Is that right?
Trisha
Yes, I, I remember I don't know about you, Jane, but I remember being a reading mum, which meant that you came in and listened to children reading. So it was sort of like volunteering at the back of the classroom. And I think I did a very brief part of tuck shop duty. Yes. So those are the extent of my volunteering with the school and a little bit of time on a parent association. But yeah.
Jane
Yeah, that's great. And another and another really good thing is often now because our school communities are so diverse, there's often opportunities for parents who speak a language in addition to English to come in and help students, and particularly if you feel part of a secondary school community, there's opportunity for you to come alongside senior students and really help them refine and practice their conversation in possibly your mother tongue. So, for example, could be Cantonese or or Japanese or Mandarin. You can actually offer to volunteer to come alongside and have those conversations with those same students. And then and then in primary school, it's an opportunity for you to teach classes and about your culture and your food and the beautiful parts that you love so much of that about your cultural heritage, too.
Trisha
Yeah, because the multicultural nature is an important one of all schools values isn't just.
Jane
Very much , yeah.
Trisha
Yeah. So that parental involvement is really important. When and this does happen, when a child isn't happy at school, that's when, you know, we as parents always feel it - what should a parent do? And I think we're not just speaking about parents with children in Australian schools, but I'm also speaking about parents in other countries as well. So can we speak perhaps specifically about the expectations of how you how you can show up at an Australian school if your child is unhappy that they can generally how you can advocate and support your child through a transition while they're not happy? Yeah.
Jane
Yeah. Well, I think we should begin to share by just having a quick conversation around what goes on with us as individuals when we when we move a new school. Because by understanding what's going on in our brain, it actually will help parents then to be able to support their their child through having conversations, also to then go to school if required, whatever the case may be.
So so let's just step back one, one step and let's talk about what's going on in our brain. So because let's think about this. At the end of the day, we're at school to learn, aren't we? But learning is hard when everything is new and and our emotions can be quite big. There has been quite a bit of research done, and particularly by Professor John Hattie.
He's done four measured studies between 2009 and 2018, and he's just about to bring out another one. And he has found that moving is one of the most detrimental factors on learning, and there's good reason for that.
So this is how I explain to kids what is going on in their brain when they move to a new school. So in our brains, we have a special part called the amygdala and Karen Young very well known Australian psychologist here, calls our amygdala our protective warrior. So when we find ourselves in new situations and worried about making a mistake or being away from people or places that we care about, our amygdala senses our associated emotions and it sticks up to protect us, wants to look after us.
You might have heard of the fight, flight or freeze responses. When we find ourselves in situations that we're unfamiliar with that we’re a bit frightened about. This is your amygdala at work. But the problem with our amygdala, is that it's really not great at differentiating what is scary and safe versus is what is scary and dangerous. So what it does is it tries to turn off our thinking brain so that we can act fast in these uncertain situations. So this, of course, makes learning very tricky. So in those early weeks and months, and for some people it can take longer, I really encourage kids to be kind to their brains and parents. This is actually also really important for you too, to be kind to your brain as you transition to a new country, deep breathing, talking to a trusted adult, listening to your favorite music, taking a walk. They're just some of the things and some of the ways that we can be kind to our brains.
And they calming our brains down by actually talking to them, letting them know that you are okay, that you're brave and you can do hard things. It really helps your amygdala relax and allows your brain do what it's actually meant to do, think and learn. So by understanding what's going on in our brain, it really helps us to be able to support ourselves and then support our children as well.
See because our emotions are like a shell and they have and our cognitive glassware sits upon the shelf. The shelf, our emotions, underpin that cognitive glassware, we have, it's important that we manage our emotions so that our cognitive glassware can do what it's meant to do. Our brain can what it's actually meant to do. But of course, as I mentioned before, all of this is absolutely exhausting. So if our child is not happy at school. Getting back to your question now, Trisha, what can we as parents do?
Well, the first thing to remember is that parents are regarded as an integral part in the education of our child. So your voice matters. So when it comes to supporting your child, having that conversation around what's going on in the brain, I'll include in our notes at the end of our time together here today a great resource called it’s a book called Dear Brain ‘Dear You’ (sorry) ‘Love Your Brain’ and it will help you to really have some great conversations around what's going on in your brain.
But just listen to your child. I really encourage you to actively listen and repeat back what you're hearing them say, including the emotions that you are hearing them verbalize. It's really important that children feel safe, supported and seen because this is how children learn best when. They feel safe, supported and seen.
Understand, help them to understand that this is part of the transition process. Having good days and bad days, good moments, you know, I'm happy moments - is part of the transition process, and as things become more familiar, then our emotions will start to even out a little bit more. But in that early transition phase, it is a lot like a rollercoaster. So I definitely encourage you to to just have those open conversations around the dinner table.
It also, parents, names being a little bit vulnerable yourselves and I encourage you to role model that vulnerability of you. Today was a really hard day. I couldn't I didn't know how to do a… and so I had to step through this in order to complete it. You know, those kind of things. So really showing your children that it's not all a walk in the park for you either.
If you need to go, if you like, you need to go and have a conversation with the teacher. I strongly encourage you to do that. In fact, before that, around this time I went about week three, week four of the school year. I'd really encourage you to tell your child's story to your teachers, to your child's teachers, help them to understand where they've come from, what they love, about what their interests are, what they hobbies are. If you understand how they think, you understand how they learn best, include that in your communication with your teacher. Your teacher will be so happy that you have provided them with this lens into your child and it will help them as they teach and help them to create learning opportunities for your child that really will engage them and help them on their on their learning journey.
If feel that you need to make an appointment with the teacher, absolutely do that. And teachers are more than happy to meet with parents. So you can just do that by sending an email. That's probably the easiest way. If teachers don't answer phones during the day that they're in classrooms, the easiest way to communicate with any teacher or anyone at school is via email.
And then it's about making a plan about what you want to say. And I will include in our notes a resource for you on how to just think through what it is that you want to say when you're coming into a conversation with your teacher. And so we won't waste time worrying about that now. But I just want you to know that I just want to repeat that your voice matters. And so please feel comfortable walking into the school and having a conversation with with your child's teachers.
Now, if English is is something that you are worried about, your English language skills, something you're worried about most schools will have an interpreter or someone that they can call on who can come and sit with you and interpret for you. If that's something that you are concerned about, you just need to ask them.
Trisha
It's brilliant. Thank you. I'm wondering if the ways that you advocate or the things you're thinking about change as the child gets older. You know, if we're thinking about more high school transitions and even if we're at the later stage and thinking about the end of high school and transitioning to university, what is the sort of for all of us as parents, regardless of where we are transitioning with children around the world, and some of those children might be young adults.
So thinking how do we sort of see the child's needs change and adapt to them?
Jane
Oh gosh, that is such a big question.
Trisha
I know I know and we haven't got that much time left.
Jane
Yeah, that is that is a big question. So I think the main thing is the emotion. You know, I explained before about the emotions being the shelf. I think that that is a constant. So helping our children to be able to create a or develop a vocabulary around our emotions is something that is a constant throughout all of our parenting. But then that adding to that over time is is very important. And, you know, having those open discussions is is very.
I think some of the key things around friendship skills. We can really help us to help our children to develop friendship skills over time. Is it is something is a skill that is needed for life. In fact, I just read research paper from Harvard University. They have the longest study into happiness in the whole entire world in the world. It began in 1938. And the bottom line, their key finding is that our health and our happiness comes down to one thing, and that is relationships. And so developing our friendship skills, so conversation skills, so helping your child in kindergarten, for example, in those early years of school, having helping our children to be able to play together, you know, sharing, those kind of things are really important.
As we come into high school, those conversations start is equipping our children with just one or two questions. What's your favorite band, for example your music band? You know, what's your what do you like to do on the weekends? Two very simple questions, but just equipping our children with some conversation starters can make such a difference to starting in a new school. It's so simple but so important. Other things, I would say, particularly in the secondary school, is getting your head around the what children are listening to in terms of music, also fashion.
Now you might think, so in most Australian schools you have to wear a school uniform. So you would think, okay, well, it's a school uniform. Everyone wears it exactly the same way. Ah, no. That is not that is not what happens at all. And I can speak from absolute experience here. I moved from Sydney to Melbourne and both schools had had school uniforms rocked up at the school in Melbourne with the new uniform. But the way I wore my uniform here in Sydney to discover that, oh my gosh, no, those socks, you don't pull them up under your knees. They have to be scrunched down to the ankles and the brown shoes that we had to have. Well, actually no lace up shoes weren't the right shoes they needed to be buckle up shoes by the back. Who knew that? It didn't specify that, you know, things like that. It can make such a difference walking into the school gate and having your uniform the way that everyone else has has their uniform. So such basic needs, but actually really important.
And that is all around belonging. So one of our most important needs as humans is to feel that we belong. And so what I've just described to us seemingly on the surface things and as a parent, you might go, Oh gosh, I got no time for that. That's just ridiculous. They need to be able to know what what subjects they're going to be learning in class. But it makes such a big difference to that feeling of being part of a community, of not being an outsider, not fitting in, but actually belonging to that community.
And that is that is a key thing when it comes to schooling, when it comes to community, when it comes to us as, you know, human beings - isn’t it?
Trisha
Absolutly. And you can sort of think that even more important for those kids who are going to places which don't have uniforms. So the observation they might be doing of what kids are wearing and maybe buying some clothes when they arrive so they look a bit more similar rather than standing out too much.
Jane
Yes. Yes, that's right. And I've noticed a new trend, particularly. I'm coming to you from from Gadigal land in Sydney. So one of the trends I really noticed here is that the school backpack at a lot of schools seems to have gone out the window now. It's part of the uniform, but people are not wearing it and in fact they're going more for tote bags, particularly the girls have tote bags. So yes, so and it can make a difference.
Trisha
Observation is critical.
How does the Australian education system impact the way young people show up in the workplace 36:05
Yes. Okay. Well, when we think about all these differences and we think about how education people so if we think within Australia back to, back to sort of the Australian community again, given that our Australian education system has some of these aspects that we've discussed, how do you think that impacts on how young people might show up differently in the workplace?
And this is a question that I had from one of my one of my assignees has arrived into Australia and I thought it was a great insightful.
Jane
Oh my gosh, what a fabulous question. Well, congratulations to your assignee for for actually making that connection. That's such a brilliant question. It makes me think of a quote I heard that Socrates said way back in 500 B.C. He said, ‘Youth today love luxury, they have bad manners, contempt for authority, no respect for older people and talk nonsense when they should be working’.
(Laughter)
Trisha
Nothing changes, hey?
Jane
Interesting, isn't it? I think that probably still is true for for many in 2023. But I also firmly believe that the Australian education system really does equip our young people to be effective global citizens. They are engaged and active in the community and they are amazing really.
So if I think about our current students who are now going into work, so we call them Gen Z, they are born between 1995 to 2009. So these are your young employees, perhaps they might have a casual position or they might be coming into full time work. The social researcher Mark McCrindle has identified that these Gen Z are tech savvy, visually engaged and sustainably minded, and they want to work for organizations where their values align and that they also want to work in a place that is connected to a purpose and their work is connected to a purpose.
So what do they bring to this workplace? And as I said, I just love this question so much. Well, they are amazing problem solvers. They have been doing a lot of problem solving through school and they're also critical and creative in their thinking. So I would encourage employers to give them opportunities to show their initiative, to think outside the box and really give them a voice to contribute to solution solving and and also innovations and seeing things in new ways, seeing old things in new ways.
I think that they are definitely equipped to do that. They also have right through their education, they have been involved in collaborative learning. So they know how to work as as as part of a team. They're very experienced at that. Yet they're also capable of working independently because that's something that's also valued in the Australian education system.
They are a generation that are incredibly aware. In fact, I would say they are the most aware of the importance of their mental wellbeing and many of them are active and informed citizens, which is one of the goals of the Australian education system. They care about protecting the climate. Many of them are politically aware and they really value integrity in leadership, all leadership from politicians through to bosses, through to colleagues, friends and family. So these are important skills and values that they bring to the workplace.
Trisha
It gives some thought to, doesn't it? Because if they have that strong emphasis on mental wellbeing, they may also be people in the workplace who will draw boundaries and who will say, No, I'm not working overtime, this is my this is my private time, this is my me time. So they may be less likely than previous generation to to let go and of their own needs and in light of the employer's needs. I'm also thinking about that integrity aspect and perhaps they may be a little bit more critical of the boss if they see somebody is perhaps not operating with the full integrity that they expect.
Jane
Yeah, I would I would I would agree with that, Absolutely. They're also very aware of their rights as as workers and as Australian citizens. They are very aware. So yes, interesting, isn't it? I mean, so so many so many strengths, but also elements that employers need to. I think it's important that there's that open and honest dialog and most students are used to that because often in classes throughout the Australian schooling system, there is a very robust discussion.
So it's not one way of thinking, not one way of learning, really. The voices of everyone in the room are very valued. So I think that that is a great strategy when you come up against those situations that you've described, Trisha, is that they do value the conversation.
Trisha
Yeah. Instead of the the boss switching into was it Socrates at the beginning?
Jane
Yeah, Yeah.
Trisha
Into Socrates mode of just criticizing, which we do know is the tendency of some people within and some of the older generations within the workforce as well, just to look down and criticize. But yes. Yeah. Something, we would hope, is not being, is not being repeated.
Jane
Yes. And I think that that's a challenge across all across the board now is that within organizations everywhere around the world, the workforce is multi-generational. So we're really having to navigate those nuances between the generations and the values. I mean, our values have changed over time, haven’t they? And so so aligning those or having conversations around those values is so important, which is why organizations need to be very clear on what their values are so that you know that there can be goals and focus there.
Trisha
Absolutely. And that's another whole discussion, Jane, we'll have to come back another time. Thank you so much for your willingness to share the resources. I think that sounds wonderful and I'm sure they will be valuable to people. So we will put them alongside this recording and links for everybody to go to. We’ll also have a transcript, so that people can read some of our content as well.
Trisha
Jane, thank you so much. This has been a really rich discussion. I mean, we could have gone on for ages, but
Jane
We could have, yes.
Trisha
We know you haven't got all day to sit and listen. So thank you so much, Jane. I really appreciate your time and your wisdom, all of the expertise that you've brought to this discussion.
Jane
Thank you so much, Trisha. And to all the parents out there, I just am sending you all all mybest wishes and just know that that it's a journey. It's a process. Transition is a process and it takes time.
Trisha
Thank you for those wonderful last words.